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Disturbing thought in Talk of Empires re: tourney streaming

Moderator:  fallingstar

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Re: Disturbing thought in Talk of Empires re: tourney stream

Postby  patao » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:15 pm

  17 Feb 2017, 20:50 GMT » Spring_ wrote:
To me the football analogy is a good one but Zak understands it wrong from my perspective. For example, the NFL isn't selling football its selling the right to watch/stream their specific teams playing each other, same with fifa. Voobly and any other organization should be able to sell the rights to watch their sponsored teams in their sponsored event play each other, they are not however selling the right to stream/watch aoe2 as a whole.. two totally different things.

selling the rights to watch/broadcast events seems like a great idea as long as the teams are sponsored through the sales and not the community. If a sponsor sends money to any org (voobly, ESG) to create an event for the public, its designed to pay for the publics viewing not generate voobly/ESG money. So there would have to be different sets of rules based on how the even was created and sponsored.


The confusing part for me is that it turns out that streaming at all or making a full game youtube video etc. is a copyright violation, if the rights holder wants to enforce it.

So ZeroEmpires is right (as far as I can tell) that selling rights to stream a tournament is a violation and could be blocked. But it's a violation for the same reason that every stream on Twitch is a violation.

So you / I / Nili / Twitch viewers are right that there's no distinction between selling rights to stream a tournament and what happens every day on Twitch, and is therefore completely uninteresting and not worth mentioning. Applying the football model to a serious AoC tourney is just as legit as streaming "Viper beats 16xx with drush using only one finger and both eyes closed" or whatever, unless the rights holder draws an arbitrary line in the sand. This completely uninteresting fact is why BMAP rightly thinks this is just a stupid topic.

In the end, I'm happy, stupid uninteresting topic which is what I was hoping for.
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Re: Disturbing thought in Talk of Empires re: tourney stream

Postby  Coffee » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:13 pm

You might have just missed it, but Nili did get to finish his thoughts and comments on it a few min later. Anyways, I forgot to watch out for these videos. Thanks for posting, watched the whole thing :)
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Re: Disturbing thought in Talk of Empires re: tourney stream

Postby  Brainless » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:34 am

i'm sorry if i'm wrong, but wasn't Nili talking about selling the right to broadcast a tournament?

If this is the case, owning AOE2 is not relevant. It is the tournament organisation you own. And you sell the spin-off of your tournament organisation. Very simple.

Why should i not be allowed to sell footage of me or someone performing something with a tool delivered by a 3rd party? I paid for the tool (AOE2 in this case) and i show other people how i use it.
The purpose of AOE2 is to play games with it, that is what it was made for. That is what i paid for. If i gather an audience while playing, and getting profit for it, the revenue is because of me playing.

It is the act of playing the game that is what is paid for. It is not the game itself that is (illegally) redistributed. This is a fundamental difference, between "the act of playing AOE" and "the use of AOE". Viewers that whatch a tournament or game are not using AOE. Tournament organisers are not using AOE. Only the player uses it. Footage of AOE being played indeed contains copyrighted graphics, but i strongly resist that streaming those is a from of distribution. Instead it must be seen as part of the public environment, in which the game has been released. This is comparable to instances like the design of a car, the genetics of crops etc. You can not forbid any live footage containing a product that is copyrighted by someone.
And if one does or wants to, you are for sure in a *@$%ed up country.
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Re: Disturbing thought in Talk of Empires re: tourney stream

Postby  patao » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:33 pm

  21 Feb 2017, 09:34 GMT » Brainless wrote:
You can not forbid any live footage containing a product that is copyrighted by someone. And if one does or wants to, you are for sure in a *@$%ed up country.


Unfortunately, this is apparently the case, under US law at least. For some cinematic games it makes sense (e.g. games that are almost like movies, where "Let's Play" vids are just as good as buying the game), but I agree, for games like AoC or whatever it's ridiculous.

Anyways I'm 100% convinced that this issue is irrelevant to AoC now so nothing to see here :lol: Re: Ultrafong, I did listen to Nili finish his thoughts after the chat asked for it, my initial concern was just that Zero's opinion was that it was such an illegal idea it wasn't worth bringing up.
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