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Spain The shit is over

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Re: Spain The shit is over

Postby  DraXieN » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:11 pm

I've checked the game, because I thought it might be interesting and decide I'll try to analyze it. Here are some things I noticed:

Forever - you had definitely better map. You had solid main gold, very nice 2nd and solid 3rd extra golds, very nice berries and in case you need stone soon, you had great main stone just in the back and other quite in the back aswell. You could TC more of the wood spots aswell and your wood in general was pretty good. His map - nice back wood, but he couldn't TC it because of hill, in general solid wood map. Way worse main gold with a bad hill aswell, his 3rd gold was in a very bad position + he couldn't TC it, his berries were also in a bad spot in case you were fwding, his both stones were fwd. He had 2 quite crucial hills he needed to defend - the main gold hill and the hill above his berries (you had only one, small on your gold) and just for the late game you couldn't afford loosing the hill next to your 3rd gold spot. Your map was very very good, his map wasn't too bad, but definitely not as good as yours.
Your playstyle - going to lame before you found your last sheep. If you do this in regular games not knowing who you play vs, that's very lame. You had to go back with scout, you still didn't try to scout your extra sheep, you rather went fwd again (no reason to do this with 7 hp scout) specially when you still missing 2 sheep and could lure your deer. Poxo took the 2 extra sheep later (and I can't blame him for doing so, when you tried to lame his sheep in 3. min). You had quite early sheep and yet went for loom with 11 pop, that's very bad aswell. Compared to player doing loom just before feudal, you're 100 resources behind just because of doing that (you had solid and close boars, no point doing loom that early). Your boar timing was very bad, you lost 40 food on sheep just because you came too early with boar. Because of all that you were idling your eco when forcing 21 pop (you didn't really have eco for going 21, when you do loom that early 22 or even 23 is better choice) so you went about 10 sec later up than you should (average time for 21 pop is 9:50 - 9:55, with very low idle time players can do sometimes even 9:45 so they are about 20 sec faster than you with the same pop = 4/5 of a villager time. You only made 1 LC - with this strat it's a good decision, but the strat is wrong in general so doing 1 LC is wrong aswell in the end. When clicked up you had 5 vills on berries. Well ofc you won't sustain wood upgrade + fletching + vill production with 5 foragers. That means that just with your dark age, you didn't really scout your base, you let Poxo take 2 sheep of yours, your scout was on very low HP, you went very early loom (when absolutely didn't need so) and was quite behind with the up time. You somehow scouted Poxos base, but you were idling your scout a lot, you shouldn't let your scout idle for longer than like 5 sec, it pretty much shouldn't stop whole dark age. Very bad dark age, but just because of your mistakes.
Feudal age - 21 pop fwd archers is one of the worst strats I've seen in a long time. If enemy finds your fwd vills and can do directly archery range and not stable you're gg. You ofc didn't make horse collar (as usual with fwd strats) but to make fletching and wood up you were idling your TC so badly you were 6 vills behind in 16 mins. What damage you expect to do with 6 - 8 fwd archers? Kill 8 vills? Vs strong players you'll never achieve that.
Your feudal aggresion was quite strong and you took Poxos gold. The scout addition wasn't bad idea either, but your macro was really bad and therefore you needed to use your market so heavily.
Castle age - you upgraded your 8 archers to xbows, fine. You have kts so you want with these xbows snipe enemy spears or some archers when being behind your kts. You wasted your xbows vs enemy skirms which were pretty useless at this point when you had 2+2 kts. You were producing from the 3rd stable (the fwd palisaded aswell) and wasted there a some time with the kts instead of doing the damage. Either delete the stable or micro the kts you produce there. You were doing a lot of damage to enemy's eco. Problem is you killed 20 vills by like 35. min, you were with the same vill count as Poxo. Why? Because you're just idling TC so so much. Whatever the game was in your favour, you only needed to keep pushing the gold and add elite skirms. Even 10 elite skirms with fletching would decide the game at this point, poxos counter units had to be spears + CAs + monks. He couldnt ever afford more kts to kill your skirms. Ok you didn't add the elite skirms fwd, you added TCs and boomed home. Still fine, poxo didn't have eco for own boom, his only units had to be pikes + CAs + monks. So you only needed CAs or elite skirms home, outboom poxo and then decide how you want to win the game. Well you didn't add elite skirms and let Poxo to raid as he wants, but you clicked imperial and still could easily win with selling res and doing +4 cavaliers and kill anything Poxo had at this point.
Imperial - You had like 2 mins to do any damage you wanted which should be enough on such open map. You didn't add +4 upgrade instantly, you massed cavaliers and attacked just after poxo made FU hca and halbs. Ofc he'll win then. He had better eco, way better map control and you allowed him to do better units.
So - despite your solid feudal aggresion which went way better than I'd expect and way faster click up time, where you absolutey caught poxo off guard, you made huge decision/macro mistakes, which cost you the game. Your dark age, castle age and imperial age were very very bad and only thing which went good was how you pushed Poxo in feudal of his golds (only because of his map). How you act in the game, blamed the map and then "drop" exactly when the game was very over.. You can say you're not a retard numerous of times and how you regret what you were doing in the past. Whatever, you acted like an absolute fool in the game. I don't see you as 2 players of equal skill, you can surely win Poxo but only if you caught him off guard like you did in this game, but you can easily loose to 14+ player when playing like this. I don't see this happening to Poxo. So if you want to be better - then a) focus on your bo rather than on laming, try to understand your map in dark age. b) Change your strategical play, this strategy was very very bad (and the execution in macro part even worse). c) Don't behave like an idiot in the games (or at least you behaved in this one - if you do like this in other aswell you might actually just deserve how Poxo post this game (but not the smurf part).

Poxo - I liked your play way more, but your dark wasn't good aswell. You had 2 golds on one side and not in ideal position, you want to find the 3rd one then. If you found it in dark age, you could use it way earlier than your main gold and the game would be over way faster. Also you didn't really watch your TC when doing the scout fight which lead to some idle time and then your 22 up time was delayed just as Forevers.
Feudal age - you should have walled your left side. You pretty much seen you could wall it easily and then you could just fully focus on the right side with golds. If he used this and came with some arch at certain times he could just kill 5 vill for no reason. Also when he was pushing the wall with arch + vills, you should just make a horizontal gate behind or make a market to some HP. That would allow you to save the tower for better position, you didn't stop him and didn't prevent him going inside. I also didn't really like the scouts in your base. They were pretty useless vs his army at that point, just send them fwd and maybe you kill 1 - 2 vills, distract him, scout how many vills he has and where etc. He went with the tower behind your back wood, you were still fine - just prevent him for any cost to get to the other side, stonewall from TC to the back wood, you had a tower on the other side + some walls aswell. This way hed be stucked on the right side for some time, you didn't need the gold too much at that point anyways and youd be safe home, just go with all your army fwd (add maybe 1 - 2 spears just in case he has some scouts in his base aswell. He wouldn't have anything to stop your army and you would force him of any res you wish. As he got to your left side with your farm eco that was a huge game changer and he immediately got ahead in the game (despite being 6 vills behind). Going for the palisaded gold wasn't the best choice aswell, when you didnt see your 3rd gold pile you should go more fwd close to his range and put towers there and youd take gold again way earlier. Not taking it for that long forced you to make too many skirms = you didn't have the food = you uped way too late. You could expect him going kts and still didn't make the spears, that wasn't too smart, but then you defended it in the end nicely and then used your CAs in perfect way, didn't really see any mistake you did after early castle age.

And yeah seeing the actual game and the chat together I have to apologize - if he behaves like most of the time, posting the chat isn't nice thing but maybe just what he deserves. I still don't like that you smurfed him (and when you did you should tell him in the game at least) and some other things you wrote, but calling you a bigger retard (or just a retard was dumb, so Im very sorry).

Edit: Just one more thing about your play Poxo - was the problem with the achers and how you lost so many of them to his 2+2 kts. If you just send 8 - 10 around and fwd, you could kill easily 10 vills on wood/gold. This way you pretty much wasted them. Even when he came with kts, you could just put your archs in some tight area and save some of them, against enemy with kts and open map, xbows fwd can do great damage. In your base they're quite useless.
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Re: Spain The shit is over

Postby  kw1k000000 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:17 pm

  24 Feb 2017, 10:58 GMT » DraXieN wrote:
Game Analysis


Great stuff and seems you did put quite some time into this.

  24 Feb 2017, 10:39 GMT » Forever wrote:
Im not coward.


haha says the guy who is running away from a duel without even conceding like a man. Take the challenge or concede, stop being pretentious.
ImageAll hail, the king of aoc! Image

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Re: Spain The shit is over

Postby  Forever » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:12 pm

  24 Feb 2017, 11:11 GMT » DraXieN wrote:
I've checked the game, because I thought it might be interesting and decide I'll try to analyze it. Here are some things I noticed:

Forever - you had definitely better map. You had solid main gold, very nice 2nd and solid 3rd extra golds, very nice berries and in case you need stone soon, you had great main stone just in the back and other quite in the back aswell. You could TC more of the wood spots aswell and your wood in general was pretty good. His map - nice back wood, but he couldn't TC it because of hill, in general solid wood map. Way worse main gold with a bad hill aswell, his 3rd gold was in a very bad position + he couldn't TC it, his berries were also in a bad spot in case you were fwding, his both stones were fwd. He had 2 quite crucial hills he needed to defend - the main gold hill and the hill above his berries (you had only one, small on your gold) and just for the late game you couldn't afford loosing the hill next to your 3rd gold spot. Your map was very very good, his map wasn't too bad, but definitely not as good as yours.
Your playstyle - going to lame before you found your last sheep. If you do this in regular games not knowing who you play vs, that's very lame. You had to go back with scout, you still didn't try to scout your extra sheep, you rather went fwd again (no reason to do this with 7 hp scout) specially when you still missing 2 sheep and could lure your deer. Poxo took the 2 extra sheep later (and I can't blame him for doing so, when you tried to lame his sheep in 3. min). You had quite early sheep and yet went for loom with 11 pop, that's very bad aswell. Compared to player doing loom just before feudal, you're 100 resources behind just because of doing that (you had solid and close boars, no point doing loom that early). Your boar timing was very bad, you lost 40 food on sheep just because you came too early with boar. Because of all that you were idling your eco when forcing 21 pop (you didn't really have eco for going 21, when you do loom that early 22 or even 23 is better choice) so you went about 10 sec later up than you should (average time for 21 pop is 9:50 - 9:55, with very low idle time players can do sometimes even 9:45 so they are about 20 sec faster than you with the same pop = 4/5 of a villager time. You only made 1 LC - with this strat it's a good decision, but the strat is wrong in general so doing 1 LC is wrong aswell in the end. When clicked up you had 5 vills on berries. Well ofc you won't sustain wood upgrade + fletching + vill production with 5 foragers. That means that just with your dark age, you didn't really scout your base, you let Poxo take 2 sheep of yours, your scout was on very low HP, you went very early loom (when absolutely didn't need so) and was quite behind with the up time. You somehow scouted Poxos base, but you were idling your scout a lot, you shouldn't let your scout idle for longer than like 5 sec, it pretty much shouldn't stop whole dark age. Very bad dark age, but just because of your mistakes.
Feudal age - 21 pop fwd archers is one of the worst strats I've seen in a long time. If enemy finds your fwd vills and can do directly archery range and not stable you're gg. You ofc didn't make horse collar (as usual with fwd strats) but to make fletching and wood up you were idling your TC so badly you were 6 vills behind in 16 mins. What damage you expect to do with 6 - 8 fwd archers? Kill 8 vills? Vs strong players you'll never achieve that.
Your feudal aggresion was quite strong and you took Poxos gold. The scout addition wasn't bad idea either, but your macro was really bad and therefore you needed to use your market so heavily.
Castle age - you upgraded your 8 archers to xbows, fine. You have kts so you want with these xbows snipe enemy spears or some archers when being behind your kts. You wasted your xbows vs enemy skirms which were pretty useless at this point when you had 2+2 kts. You were producing from the 3rd stable (the fwd palisaded aswell) and wasted there a some time with the kts instead of doing the damage. Either delete the stable or micro the kts you produce there. You were doing a lot of damage to enemy's eco. Problem is you killed 20 vills by like 35. min, you were with the same vill count as Poxo. Why? Because you're just idling TC so so much. Whatever the game was in your favour, you only needed to keep pushing the gold and add elite skirms. Even 10 elite skirms with fletching would decide the game at this point, poxos counter units had to be spears + CAs + monks. He couldnt ever afford more kts to kill your skirms. Ok you didn't add the elite skirms fwd, you added TCs and boomed home. Still fine, poxo didn't have eco for own boom, his only units had to be pikes + CAs + monks. So you only needed CAs or elite skirms home, outboom poxo and then decide how you want to win the game. Well you didn't add elite skirms and let Poxo to raid as he wants, but you clicked imperial and still could easily win with selling res and doing +4 cavaliers and kill anything Poxo had at this point.
Imperial - You had like 2 mins to do any damage you wanted which should be enough on such open map. You didn't add +4 upgrade instantly, you massed cavaliers and attacked just after poxo made FU hca and halbs. Ofc he'll win then. He had better eco, way better map control and you allowed him to do better units.
So - despite your solid feudal aggresion which went way better than I'd expect and way faster click up time, where you absolutey caught poxo off guard, you made huge decision/macro mistakes, which cost you the game. Your dark age, castle age and imperial age were very very bad and only thing which went good was how you pushed Poxo in feudal of his golds (only because of his map). How you act in the game, blamed the map and then "drop" exactly when the game was very over.. You can say you're not a retard numerous of times and how you regret what you were doing in the past. Whatever, you acted like an absolute fool in the game. I don't see you as 2 players of equal skill, you can surely win Poxo but only if you caught him off guard like you did in this game, but you can easily loose to 14+ player when playing like this. I don't see this happening to Poxo. So if you want to be better - then a) focus on your bo rather than on laming, try to understand your map in dark age. b) Change your strategical play, this strategy was very very bad (and the execution in macro part even worse). c) Don't behave like an idiot in the games (or at least you behaved in this one - if you do like this in other aswell you might actually just deserve how Poxo post this game (but not the smurf part).

Poxo - I liked your play way more, but your dark wasn't good aswell. You had 2 golds on one side and not in ideal position, you want to find the 3rd one then. If you found it in dark age, you could use it way earlier than your main gold and the game would be over way faster. Also you didn't really watch your TC when doing the scout fight which lead to some idle time and then your 22 up time was delayed just as Forevers.
Feudal age - you should have walled your left side. You pretty much seen you could wall it easily and then you could just fully focus on the right side with golds. If he used this and came with some arch at certain times he could just kill 5 vill for no reason. Also when he was pushing the wall with arch + vills, you should just make a horizontal gate behind or make a market to some HP. That would allow you to save the tower for better position, you didn't stop him and didn't prevent him going inside. I also didn't really like the scouts in your base. They were pretty useless vs his army at that point, just send them fwd and maybe you kill 1 - 2 vills, distract him, scout how many vills he has and where etc. He went with the tower behind your back wood, you were still fine - just prevent him for any cost to get to the other side, stonewall from TC to the back wood, you had a tower on the other side + some walls aswell. This way hed be stucked on the right side for some time, you didn't need the gold too much at that point anyways and youd be safe home, just go with all your army fwd (add maybe 1 - 2 spears just in case he has some scouts in his base aswell. He wouldn't have anything to stop your army and you would force him of any res you wish. As he got to your left side with your farm eco that was a huge game changer and he immediately got ahead in the game (despite being 6 vills behind). Going for the palisaded gold wasn't the best choice aswell, when you didnt see your 3rd gold pile you should go more fwd close to his range and put towers there and youd take gold again way earlier. Not taking it for that long forced you to make too many skirms = you didn't have the food = you uped way too late. You could expect him going kts and still didn't make the spears, that wasn't too smart, but then you defended it in the end nicely and then used your CAs in perfect way, didn't really see any mistake you did after early castle age.

And yeah seeing the actual game and the chat together I have to apologize - if he behaves like most of the time, posting the chat isn't nice thing but maybe just what he deserves. I still don't like that you smurfed him (and when you did you should tell him in the game at least) and some other things you wrote, but calling you a bigger retard (or just a retard was dumb, so Im very sorry).

Edit: Just one more thing about your play Poxo - was the problem with the achers and how you lost so many of them to his 2+2 kts. If you just send 8 - 10 around and fwd, you could kill easily 10 vills on wood/gold. This way you pretty much wasted them. Even when he came with kts, you could just put your archs in some tight area and save some of them, against enemy with kts and open map, xbows fwd can do great damage. In your base they're quite useless.


Maybe for you is one of the worst tactic, but some of my NHN friends that are better than you in arabia huns had told me the contrary. And tbh i trust them more, as they are friends and also better players.
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Re: Spain The shit is over

Postby  von_miguel » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:14 pm

  23 Feb 2017, 23:36 GMT » DraXieN wrote:
  08 Jan 2017, 22:23 GMT » DraXieN wrote:
shouldn't you be banned?


I don't remember it, but could be easily true. I usually don't like playing players below 1800 because it's not really challenging for me and then I do too many mistakes because I'm not as focused.


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Re: Spain The shit is over

Postby  Moneimon » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:31 pm

  24 Feb 2017, 11:11 GMT » DraXieN wrote:
- going to lame before you found your last sheep. If you do this in regular games not knowing who you play vs, that's very lame.

He doesnt go to lame, but due his bad exploration he is used to play with only 6 sheeps xd.
  24 Feb 2017, 11:11 GMT » DraXieN wrote:
Feudal age - 21 pop fwd archers is one of the worst strats I've seen in a long time

A lot of people has told him this (me as well), he even had problems when he was in Jedi cause a lot of Jedi players told him that about his strat, but he couldnt accept it, cause he can win games to better players than him when he does it.
  24 Feb 2017, 11:11 GMT » DraXieN wrote:
How you act in the game, blamed the map

This is how i meet him when he started playing in MS, he was new, came from hamachi, was very bad player ( as expected from everyone who started playing in hamachi, i came from there too 11) and he was always like that, blaming the map, the luck or whatever, but he was also a passionate guy to the game, so i tried to help him improve (not sure how much time now, but for sure over half a year) as a "aoc teacher" xd. The first thing i tried to teach him was that he had to learn to lose, to be able to improve and to respect others. I also tried to help him to improve his macro ( I insisted in this a lot since im macro player not a micro player) cause his macro was really bad. U can see my failure as a teacher 11 but if u keep telling someone to explore with the sheeps over 100 times and still he doenst do it and more things like that tells that maybe im not that bad sensei and it is his fault too xD. It was about time that i couldnt stand his childish behavior and stopped teaching him.
The thing of poxo smurfing him is because Forever has been claiming for 2 years that he could beat poxo, and in the later times, depending on the day, he claims that he was same level or better than poxo, but everytime u tell him to prove it he shut up. There is still a lot background story but i dont like to write and i've written enough for today 11.

About poxo he deseved to lose the game, he knows that forever only does FWD archers or straight FC and still manage to get suprised 11 the poor kts micro from Forever and his bad macro saved his ***.
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Re: Spain The shit is over

Postby  Poxo » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:33 pm

Dracont I overall liked your review, ;1thumbup maybe because you criticised Forever more than me :|

IMO my main errors were:
- Not checking 3rd gold
- Lost the track of his fwd vills with the scouts (I saw them once)
- Should have build ranges on the hill with the gold
- walls to the tc in front could have secured the front (loosing both stones and one wood)
- Should have gone agressive at some point in feudal, shouldn't have lost 4 scouts to nothing.
- Should have upgraded bow saw and chemistry before, specially chemistry before fighting vs all the cavs.

I guess we won't see Forever's *** on my room on sat 17 gmt.
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Re: Spain The shit is over

Postby  DraXieN » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:46 pm

Maybe for you is one of the worst tactic, but some of my NHN friends that are better than you in arabia huns had told me the contrary. And tbh i trust them more, as they are friends and also better players.

Well, last tip from me, think of it. Are they real friends? ;)
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Re: Spain The shit is over

Postby  Forever » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:56 pm

  24 Feb 2017, 12:33 GMT » Poxo wrote:
Dracont I overall liked your review, ;1thumbup maybe because you criticised Forever more than me :|

IMO my main errors were:
- Not checking 3rd gold
- Lost the track of his fwd vills with the scouts (I saw them once)
- Should have build ranges on the hill with the gold
- walls to the tc in front could have secured the front (loosing both stones and one wood)
- Should have gone agressive at some point in feudal, shouldn't have lost 4 scouts to nothing.
- Should have upgraded bow saw and chemistry before, specially chemistry before fighting vs all the cavs.

I guess we won't see Forever's *** on my room on sat 17 gmt.


Come to NHN Ts only you and me talk about this matter, solve this discussion and then we play when u want.
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Re: Spain The shit is over

Postby  Q_W_e_r_T_y » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:19 pm

Lovely
[14:17] squeak says:
we slung
[14:17] squeak says:
cause they teamwalled
[14:17] squeak says:
at min 6
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Re: Spain The shit is over

Postby BMAPC187 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:46 pm

this turns out to be the most pathetic thread I have ever seen.
enough of this.
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