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Imperial age: tips & secrets

Game tutorials, strategies, tips & tricks
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Re: Imperial age: tips & secrets

Postby  Carlos Ferdinand » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:46 pm

Except that 40 palas hardly win 60 halbs. I think the ratio you need to win halb vs pala is only a little more than 3:2, and when I say cost-effective I am telling you halbs will win the match even if they lose the first fight due to unfair cost-wise numbers.

And 3 halbs = 180 res while 2 pala = 270 res so even to get this ratio you need a mere 100 vil eco to match a 150 vil+cart eco (assuming carts produce gold almost at same rate as vils eventhough it's actually slower than vils gathering the extra food/wood).

In other words, you have 100 pop for army while pala player has 50 if pop was ur issue.

If you actually want to win fights and still win eco wise, go something like 120 vils vs 150 and you will have 3.6 halbs per 2 palas (easy win cost wise) and 80 halbs vs 50 palas (a win in a pop-limited fight as well).

Anyway this discussion doesn't have too much relevance because in combo fights with ranged army, palas will win. Nevertheless suggesting pure palas win pure halb in any RM scenario is wrong IMO.
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Re: Imperial age: tips & secrets

Postby  ChriSt » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:47 pm

  23 Sep 2015, 20:10 GMT » _Melkor wrote:
I thought it was common knowledge that paladins with plenty of gold would beat halbs cost wise. It comes down to a matter of pop, and the fact taht its really easy to raid wood sites and farms, whereas its a lot harder to raid a trade route( its at the back and you need somethign with range usually) SO paladins eco can end up with maybe 20-30 farms and like 3/4 lumberjacks if you start with a nice 1k stockpile of wood. Whereas the halberdier guy has to have somethign like 40/40 wood and food, absolute minimum of vils. And those are easy to raid.

Also paladins are obviously faster than halbs so its way easier to end up fighting battles of 40v 40 with paladins v halbs because you can choose the battlefield. And again in these scenarios the efficiency of pop will end up winning easily.


Correct. Its a series of factors that makes this successful.
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Re: Imperial age: tips & secrets

Postby  ChriSt » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:49 pm

  23 Sep 2015, 20:15 GMT » Fall wrote:
He's not saying that fight will be cost effective. He's saying he'll still win that fight. Then he moves across the map to the next fight. And wins that fight, even though it wasn't cost effective.

His cost-inefficient fights give him access to more gold. If he can take enough cost-inefficient trades to come close to your production, the fights very very rapidly become cost efficient for him to such an extent that it quickly outweighs his previous cost-inefficient fights. You win by making the fights so cost inefficient that you never let him start the snowball.

This is extremely difficult and requires a different point of view of when a fight is good to take to what most RM experience will tell you. It's why the market starts are so strong in DM and also why most RM players suck so hard against them. Because it does go against everything your standard imp RM experience tells you. (BF/LN with infinite safe trade notwithstanding).


Correct. Its not about the cost but the actual result. This is applicable to the majority of maps but more particular ly in bf ln and arena.
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Re: Imperial age: tips & secrets

Postby  ChriSt » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:53 pm

  23 Sep 2015, 20:46 GMT » Carlos Ferdinand wrote:
Except that 40 palas hardly win 60 halbs. I think the ratio you need to win halb vs pala is only a little more than 3:2, and when I say cost-effective I am telling you halbs will win the match even if they lose the first fight due to unfair cost-wise numbers.

And 3 halbs = 180 res while 2 pala = 270 res so even to get this ratio you need a mere 100 vil eco to match a 150 vil+cart eco (assuming carts produce gold almost at same rate as vils eventhough it's actually slower than vils gathering the extra food/wood).

In other words, you have 100 pop for army while pala player has 50 if pop was ur issue.

If you actually want to win fights and still win eco wise, go something like 120 vils vs 150 and you will have 3.6 halbs per 2 palas (easy win cost wise) and 80 halbs vs 50 palas (a win in a pop-limited fight as well).

Anyway this discussion doesn't have too much relevance because in combo fights with ranged army, palas will win. Nevertheless suggesting pure palas win pure halb in any RM scenario is wrong IMO.


Paladins peak army numbers should be around 90 with the gameplay properly appllied. This is not sustainable for any trash army to fight again. I really suggest to watch this in actual games. Specially as the ones linked are 1800 tm games or 2000+ dm games.
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Re: Imperial age: tips & secrets

Postby rgeadn » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:54 pm

Best way to beat any SO civ with a non SO civ is hope they have good monks and 30
Not really on topic but if you're spain you can easily kill civs like korea with BBC + Pala + Monks + BBT
Also nice write up :)
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Re: Imperial age: tips & secrets

Postby  SouFire » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:13 pm

Christ example works as pkt only with spanish and franks :lol: , 60 farmers, 30 choppers and 60 trade carts and only 50 palas, works very good if you have a good partner with range units otherwise paladins is very easy to counter but i'd say 60 trade carts its too much trade especially because in post imperial fights the army rises to +100 units in combat, the optimal number of trade carts is something like 35 if you add more you might have more gold and that is the best for the heavy civs but for the average civs its a luxury.
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Re: Imperial age: tips & secrets

Postby  ChriSt » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:42 am

This post doesn't strictly apply only to paladins civ (and btw, the paladin civs example can apply to pers, teutons, byz, huns as well). If your eco setup is 60+30+60 then thats just horrible economy balance. Less trade carts can be made for certain civs like mayans, brits, vikings etc but the majority of civs will be gold hungry. Even with persians elephants one should be capable to have 80 of them with a properly set economy.

Specially that in RM, the majority of the players are booming fully or doing 1 stable boom, stone walls etc. Usually you will have a huge economy surplus, specially as early imperial warfare will be strictly limited to not wasting gold (using halbs, champs, etc.) and thus you should be accumulating a nice stack of food-wood over the span of your trade carts boom.

Also majority of the time, allies will have surplus of food and wood. Usually its the gold that is scarce so you can expect food to be slinged toward you if needed. But gold is mandatory to have at all time.
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Re: Imperial age: tips & secrets

Postby  guitarizt » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:47 am

You guys are getting too caught up on the numbers. It's more about the concept. It's an arms race and what's better than 60 paladins? 80 paladins. Just keep maxing out on them. You don't want to be maxing out on halb though.

It's really not that different from rm because this game is all about inefficiencies. It's the same as making two mining camps on one gold pile so you can sacrifice wood for that quicker hit of gold.

All this makes more sense to me when I factor in time as a resource, and the later the game gets I like to think about effective use of pop space.

The game is too fluid to come up with certain numbers that are going to be even against each other. You start having inflation problems like with pala vs halb because pala are easy to make useful, but halb are immobile and hard to make useful on the map. It's not really that hard to eye it in game and figure it out, but it's important to at least be aware of.
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Re: Imperial age: tips & secrets

Postby  IvIaximus » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:58 am

As far as u do have gold Palas will rape halbs.
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Re: Imperial age: tips & secrets

Postby  _Melkor » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:30 am

Why do you need 60 farms and 30 lumberjacks for paladins?? |For massive paladins spam as any pkt you just need 30 farmers 5 lumberjacks and 60/70/80 trade carts, depending on trade route length and if spain is on your team.
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