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AoC Statistics [6.feb.2016]

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Re:

Postby  pip » Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:53 pm

  05 Dec 2015, 11:13 GMT » Jineapple wrote:
Also, this is really minor, but Goths get 35% cheaper infantry, not 33% :P That's 1 food saved per Militia!


that was only the at the civ description... For the unit civ bonuses I already used the 35% value :D Thankfully I don't have to recalculate all. You scared me there!

Edit: Also fixed wonder starting age

Thx for pointing out
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Re: AoC Statistics

Postby  Jineapple » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:18 am

  05 Dec 2015, 13:38 GMT » pip wrote:
  05 Dec 2015, 10:52 GMT » ZeroEmpires wrote:
Hey, for the Celt civ bonus it says that Celt siege fires 20% faster. I believe this should read 25%

Kataparuto tech for the Japanese also makes them fire 33% faster, and not 25% as posted on the website.

The reload speed being reduced by 20% doesn't mean 20% faster firing :)


That's all just wording, please read the legend, how FR is defined: "firing rate - the game time in seconds between consecutive starts of attack." Since there is no general definition of firing rate, I defined it like so.

It's basically reload time.


Well yeah, but then I don't think it should read e.g. "Siege weapons attack 20% faster", which isn't true but something like "Siege weapons -20% FR". It's just wording, but there's a difference, and "attack 20% faster" implies the wrong thing. Also, attack x% faster is more intuitive than y% less reload time imho ( 25% faster is one fourth, so one extra attack for every 4 normal ones, or a 25% DPS increase)

Apart from that, I found another small error - Eagle Scouts only have 4 attack in Feudal Age, just like in Dark Age.
Edit: Also, the mayan civ bonus says they start with an eagle warrior for the expansions.
Edit2: For the expansions, Parthian Tactics also affects Camel Archers and Elephant Archers (same bonuses as mangudai)
Also, Heated Shot still says it increases bonus dmg vs Camels in the expansions.
With the newest patch, Eagle Scouts do +1 vs camels from Castle Age onwards again. (Elite) Kamayuks do (6) 4 bonus damage vs. camels and the chieftains tech is supposed to give +2 vs. camels as well, though it currently doesn't work as the berserk unit misses the blank attack vs. camels.
Last edited by  Jineapple on Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: AoC Statistics

Postby  John the Late » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:32 am

- The work rate multiplicator on fish traps was changed in AoFE, from 0.75 to 1.25. :)
- Would be nice if you could include Japanese fishing ships.
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Re: AoC Statistics

Postby  pip » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:07 am

Sorry for the lack of updates recently. Was busy with life again. Also I've been bitten by a dog, so can't play during the holidays :'( ... at least I got around to fix the issues.

Thanks so much guys for the bugs and suggestions! You guys are awesome.

@ZeroEmpires - I rewrote and removed all references to firing rate. I replaced them with reload time. Hopefully this will cause less confusion. I was considering leaving in firing rate and recalculating everything, but the firing rate itself is ambiguous. What are the units? How exactly should it be calculated... so I thought better of it.
I also added the trebuchet accuracy for small buildings. Kudos to you on finding out how that worked!

@Jinneapple - you are absolutely king, thanks! I hope I didn't miss anything

@John the Late - i tried to update the food gathering from fish traps. though I did not test it. If you guys know anyone who did real testing with it, could you link it here? The japanese fishing ships food gathering would need testing, too. I didn't want to make up some numbers just from percentages. It would be nice if you guys had a test somewhere lying around you could link to :] thx.
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Re: AoC Statistics

Postby  Jineapple » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:16 pm

Ouch, that doesn't sound like fun :|

Your site has been a lot of help for my own guide, so I'm happy to give some of that back :)

I'm currently rechecking my data for the expansions, I have quite a few errors, seems like they did change a few things without mentioning it in patch notes...
Some more stuff I found: (Always for expansions)
-You misspelled Kataparuto
-You have 300F 100F as the cost for inquisition, should be 300G 100F ofc ;)
-Line of sight for eagle units is always 6 tiles, not 8
-Build time of Heavy Cav Archers is 0:27
-For the capped ram, the bonus damage with full garrison is not updated for the 5 garrison capacity.
-For siege tower, there is no mention of speed increase with garrisoned infantry.
-Normal scorpions have 7 pierce armor instead of 6
-Both versions of Cataphracts have a build time of 20 seconds instead of 23.
-Elite Genoese crossbows have a build time of 19 seconds instead of 22
-Normal Magyar Huszar has a build time of 16s, just like elite.

Regarding fishing:

I created a few scenarios to test this, but I haven't been able to get a perfect rate because I still get some movement of the fishing ships at the start. Still, I hope it's enough to see that the percentages fit, they are just all slightly lower.
In addition to the testing, I also tried to figure out the japanese bonus with genie editor. They multiply with 1.05 in DA, 1.0476 in FA, 1.0454 in CA and 1.0434 in IA to get the round 5/10/15/20% increase instead of a stacking bonus of four times 1.05.
However, Gillnets is just a flat 1.25 multiplier, so the japanese get slightly more out of that (That's why there's more than a 40% increase from base if you look at japanese CA with gillnets).

Here are my results (Excel as a summary, pics of the indivdual test results, replays and the scenarios I used)
https://onedrive.live.com/?id=F9AAFAF74 ... F74C493EB9

I'm not sure how I could improve the scenario to get better gather rates. Maybe if I write a simple custom AI for it..
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Re: AoC Statistics

Postby  pip » Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:25 pm

  29 Dec 2015, 11:30 GMT » Jineapple wrote:
Some more stuff I found: (Always for expansions)
-You misspelled Kataparuto
-You have 300F 100F as the cost for inquisition, should be 300G 100F ofc ;)
-Line of sight for eagle units is always 6 tiles, not 8
-Build time of Heavy Cav Archers is 0:27
-For the capped ram, the bonus damage with full garrison is not updated for the 5 garrison capacity.
-For siege tower, there is no mention of speed increase with garrisoned infantry.
-Normal scorpions have 7 pierce armor instead of 6
-Both versions of Cataphracts have a build time of 20 seconds instead of 23.
-Elite Genoese crossbows have a build time of 19 seconds instead of 22

Regarding fishing:

I created a few scenarios to test this...


fixed most of this.
- EDIt: sorry, yeah, the scorpions were changed in the DLCs, gonna fix quick


Nice tests for the japanese fish. I like it :). I tried to test it myself, but for some reason i got different values, I also tried to move the marvin right under the fishing ship. I double checked it with the old game and there was a difference... did they change the fishing speed between the DLC and old game??? I didn't let them drop the food, but looked at the left food on the fish in the sea.

anyways my tests using dlc:
base 0.475
gillnets 0.577083333
japDA 0.49375
japFA 0.5125
japCA 0.535416667
japCAgill 0.660416667
japImp 0.558333333
japImpGill 0.7

test with old game:
base 0.492
japDA 0.517
japFA 0.541
japCA 0.566
japImp 0.58

My tests a bit closer to old game, but still 3-4% difference.
I will upload in a bit to the server, dinner first :)
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Re: AoC Statistics

Postby  Jineapple » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:42 am

I think the difference in rates might be due to AI for the dlc, but not sure if that's enough to explain the difference between expansions and base game.

In other news: (again always for expansions)
-Mangudai have a build time of 26s,
-Might be worth mentioning that Tarkans from Stables create slower (24 and 26s, plus civ bonus so between 19 and 21s depending on how it's rounded)
-Elite Caravels do 9 bonus dmg to buildings instead of 7 (they apparently fixed that)
-Keeps have 2250 instead of 2220 HP.
-Gates take 70 seconds to build once fortified wall is researched.
-On the longboat entry, the description says "Stronger than longboat" (both base and expansion)
-For Obsidian Arrows: The +6 against stone defense doesn't actually work, because the archer-line doesn't have any attack against stone defense, they would need 0 attack for it to be upgraded. They only do 6 dmg per shot against a stone wall.

A question on reload times:
-How do you find out the values for Chu Ko Nu/Longboat (or possibly other units? Are there others affected by this?). Just let them shoot at a high HP target and see how long it takes?
-For the castle it says it has a reload time of 1.5 - Why would it be lower than the 2s noted in the game data?
Last edited by  Jineapple on Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AoC Statistics

Postby  jojkov » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:57 am

Wow, amazing, good job!
What about adding some table with hidden bonuses(pikemen vs cavalry, samurai vs unique units and so on)
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Re: AoC Statistics

Postby  robo » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:59 am

click on the unit and it will tell you its bonuses.
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Re: AoC Statistics

Postby  jojkov » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:02 am

yeah, just read it again, thx
this is great
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