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Clash of the Hippo 3 - 3v3 Edition

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Re: Clash of the Hippo 3 - 3v3 Edition

Postby  mogers87 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:22 pm

I appretiate Tsu_NilPferD's work in making this possible. This tournament was fun to follow. It was nice to have different guests co-casting.

The unusual specs are refreshing and made players come up to appropriate strategies. However, towards the end of the tournament, I found it a bit repetitive. Teams were almost always going for scouts x2 or x3 in feudal age, and maps were too similar: Arabia variants and all about getting the resources in the middle in Gold Rush, El Dorado, and even Atoll (Mediterranean was rarely picked and never saw Woodland).

As was mentioned in the Twitch chat, it would be nice to have players using the same colors during a series. The first minutes of a game can be a bit confusing when players are switching colors from game to game.

You should only set rules that you are able and willing to enforce. The way you handled the slinging episodes tarnishes your (great) work in the tournament. In the fourth game between KaiKai Larry and VNS, you said the game was decided when VNS used slinging in Castle age. Everyone agrees since they broke the rules.

Afterwards, MBL broke the rules as well. Then, at the end of the game, you say that since both teams sling, no disqualifications will happen. Finally, when I point out that this is poor judgement, you give me a condescending reply and say the game was over when VNS first broke the rules, forgetting what you just had said moments before.

So, I suggest you take your own advice and don't talk about important issues like these before thinking them through.
Last edited by  mogers87 on Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clash of the Hippo 3 - 3v3 Edition

Postby  SuperskinnyBLS » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:25 pm

  27 Feb 2017, 12:22 GMT » mogers87 wrote:
I appretiate Tsu_NilPferD's work in making this possible. This tournament was fun to follow. It was nice to have different guests co-casting.

The unusual specs are refreshing and made players come up to appropriate strategies. However, towards the end of the tournament, I found it a bit repetitive. Teams were almost always going for scouts x2 or x3 in feudal age, and maps were too similar: Arabia variants and all about getting the resources in the middle in Gold Rush, El Dorado, and even Atoll (Mediterranean was rarely picked and never saw Woodland).

As was mentioned in the Twitch chat, it would be nice to have players using the same colors during a series. The first minutes of a game can be a bit confusing when players are switching colors from game to game.

You should only set rules that you are able and willing to enforce. The way you handled the slinging episodes tarnishes your (great) work in the tournament. In the fourth game between KaiKai Larry and VNS, you said the game was decided when VNS used slinging in Castle age. Everyone agrees since they broke the rules.

Afterwards, MBL broke the rules as well. Then, at the end of the game, you say that since both teams sling, no disqualifications will happen. Finally, when I point out that this is poor judgement, you give me a condescending answer and say the game was over when VNS first broke the rules, forgetting what you just had said moments before.

So, I suggest you take your own advice and don't talk about important issues like these before thinking them through.


MBL sent resources 2 seconds before hitting the imp unlike the VNS player.
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Re: Clash of the Hippo 3 - 3v3 Edition

Postby  poZ_edie » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:27 pm

+1 about repetitive strategy/maps round after round, exept it, really enjoyable tournament to play, thank nilli, it was my first try on feudal start, and I appreciated it, good job again!
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Re: Clash of the Hippo 3 - 3v3 Edition

Postby  Toom03 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:30 pm

great tournament :) i enjoyed the feudal start setting. But have to agree the maps got a bit repetative with time and i only watched maybe half of the tournament. Still some good maps, chaos pit in team settings was good but always scouts.

Looking out for some great ideas for your next tournament :)
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Re: Clash of the Hippo 3 - 3v3 Edition

Postby  NigelSlack » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:36 pm

Tourney was nice, cool settings and makes u think a lot... my only point is the map pool was way to repetitive and maps had similarities...
Most of them were "open/semi-open ones", most of them had resources in the mid.
No Arena/RF like maps, to few water/migra maps..

i would ofc, like to use regular medium resources (with stone+stone wall)..

The sling thing as cool.. every gold rush game nowadays is a "everyone sling the maya/goth and let's see what happens".. so..
it bring variability to the gameplay, and "saved" the map from it's 1-strategy
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Re: Clash of the Hippo 3 - 3v3 Edition

Postby  kw1k000000 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:42 pm

  27 Feb 2017, 12:25 GMT » SuperskinnyBLS wrote:
  27 Feb 2017, 12:22 GMT » mogers87 wrote:
I appretiate Tsu_NilPferD's work in making this possible. This tournament was fun to follow. It was nice to have different guests co-casting.

The unusual specs are refreshing and made players come up to appropriate strategies. However, towards the end of the tournament, I found it a bit repetitive. Teams were almost always going for scouts x2 or x3 in feudal age, and maps were too similar: Arabia variants and all about getting the resources in the middle in Gold Rush, El Dorado, and even Atoll (Mediterranean was rarely picked and never saw Woodland).

As was mentioned in the Twitch chat, it would be nice to have players using the same colors during a series. The first minutes of a game can be a bit confusing when players are switching colors from game to game.

You should only set rules that you are able and willing to enforce. The way you handled the slinging episodes tarnishes your (great) work in the tournament. In the fourth game between KaiKai Larry and VNS, you said the game was decided when VNS used slinging in Castle age. Everyone agrees since they broke the rules.

Afterwards, MBL broke the rules as well. Then, at the end of the game, you say that since both teams sling, no disqualifications will happen. Finally, when I point out that this is poor judgement, you give me a condescending answer and say the game was over when VNS first broke the rules, forgetting what you just had said moments before.

So, I suggest you take your own advice and don't talk about important issues like these before thinking them through.


MBL sent resources 2 seconds before hitting the imp unlike the VNS player.


It was about 10 secs before he reached IMP and where do you draw the line? 10 secs, 1 mins, 2 mins OR after clicking up to imp, where? What if someone sends 100 stone 10 secs from the point you draw the line? mogers87 is correct in his assessment that rules should be enforced equally if they are there.

This is the sole reason why every tournament is using a mod to do sling changes and not like what Nili did. Using a mod avoids unnecessary complicated situations. Everyone gives some res while playing normal TGs, its just a habit. Heck if you don't want slinging at all then make the base tax to be 95% and move coinage banking to imperial but don't do it like this.

------

On the positive side, 3v3 should be the default setting in tournament TGs. Its so much more fun than 4v4s. In 4v4 each flank has a pocket of their own, no such thing in 3v3. Team communication, coordination becomes much more important. Where to double, where to defend.
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Re: Clash of the Hippo 3 - 3v3 Edition

Postby  SuperskinnyBLS » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:58 pm

It wasn't the first time VNS slung in the tournament and that explains Nili's reaction. He already gave them a warning the day before.

About the line? If there is 2 CM offside in a football game, you let it go. Same could happen here.

Don't expect closed maps like BF or Arina in hippo mod, where you start in feudal age, have faster scouts and less stone from the start. The settings determine players to play superagressive, preferably with scouts so the maps fit to it.
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Re: Clash of the Hippo 3 - 3v3 Edition

Postby  OneMillion » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:12 pm

I didn't watch the games, but it's no surprise that there was trouble involving a team slinging against the rules. I asked why slinging was banned at the start of this thread, and I got no response. There is a precedent for mods to be used to tone down the strength of slinging, and we have some experimental evidence of their effects. With appropriate tweaks to slinging, a balance could have been found, or at least approached. When it's banned outright, it's inevitable that you end up having to enforce rules in messy situations like these.
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Re: Clash of the Hippo 3 - 3v3 Edition

Postby  Qulala » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:55 pm

i really enjoyed the tournament this weekend with these high rated teams and amazing setting (maybe even more unusual maps), i liked that they had to play with all the civs, no exceptions. nice to see these winners aswell, they performed good as a team

good job Nili, ;)
and to the slinging thing. i think Nili made the right calls, with these kind of small breakings of the rules. an admin must decide in a few moments what to to, and he made the right ones imo.
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Re: Clash of the Hippo 3 - 3v3 Edition

Postby  Lavie_Head » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:40 pm

+
Thanks for the tournament, it was a lot of fun to follow!
I hope to see more additions possibly with some map/number of players/civs variations, but please keep the resources and the starting age settings. They are great
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