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(replay) been playing since 1999, can't even beat the ai on

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(replay) been playing since 1999, can't even beat the ai on

Postby  gretzel » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:54 am

http://www.mediafire.com/file/1lj36jrsk ... aoe2record

Here's my replay since I can't find any way to upload it to any of the popular sites or the steam workshop. I've been playing the game since 1999 but I can't even beat the ai on moderate. Its extremely **** frustrating. I don't know if the ai cheats on this difficulty and gets extra resources but it feels like it. I'm doing the best I can and going as fast as I possibly can but its not enough. The ai somehow has double my score by the castle age. I don't know what it is I'm doing wrong and its extremely frustrating that I can't see what the hell the problem is after playing the game for thousands of hours. They completely overwhelm me with a massive army I have no hope of countering. They build way more shit much faster and spam many more units than I can churn out. I need some sort of help but I fear that it is impossible for me to play this game at a competent level. I don't know what the hell it is that I'm doing wrong but I see people claiming they can beat the ai on the hardest 1v1 easily. Well how? What is it that I'm doing wrong here?
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Re: (replay) been playing since 1999, can't even beat the ai

Postby  robo » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:35 am

viewtopic.php?f=693&t=126289&p=501726#p501726

How competitively do you want to play?

Just watching the first 4 minutes of the rec, you have made dozens of 'mistakes' compared to a competitive player.

Learning to play competitively takes quite a lot of work and effort 'studying', learning build orders, and the 'correct' way of doing things.

I would start with learning a basic build order and go from there.
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Re: (replay) been playing since 1999, can't even beat the ai

Postby  Gary Internet » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:38 pm

I responded on reddit as well.

In the dark age, the town center (TC) of every civ produce villagers at a rate of 1 every 25 seconds of “in-game” time.

If for example you want to learn a build order that gets you to feudal age with 21 villagers (that’s 22 population including your scout) then you do the following maths tell gauge how good you are.

22 – 4 = 18.

The 4 is the 4 population that you already have on the map at the start of the game (1 scout and 3 villagers).

18 x 25 seconds = 450 seconds. That’s 7.5 minutes exactly. 7 mins 30 secs.

Researching loom on Arabia before clicking up to Feudal is important. Loom takes 25 seconds to research at the town center.

So 7 mins 30 secs + 25 secs = 07:55.

The perfect click time is 07:55. The advance to Feudal Age takes 2 mins 10 secs.

That means the perfect Feudal Time (the time your arrive in Feudal age) for 22 pop Feudal is 07:55 + 02:10 = 10:05.

So if you’re consistently doing a 22 pop Feudal and getting Feudal times of 11:10 then it tells you that your TC is idle i.e. not making villagers of researching loom for 65 seconds in the dark age. That’s the equivalent of slightly more than 2.5 villagers.

To put it in perspective, the top players rarely have more than 10 seconds of TC idle time in the dark age on a consistent basis, on any map.

The first thing to aim for is less than 25 seconds of TC idle time in the dark age. Any more than 25 seconds and you would have been better off making another villager. After that aim for ~12-13 seconds which is half a villager etc etc.

Commonly there are 2 things that prevent you from keeping up continuous villager production.

1) Not enough food.
2) Getting housed.

The first is usually because of poor scouting which results in not finding your 8 sheep and 2 boar quickly enough.

The second is usually because you don’t know a build order therefore you don’t know exactly when to build houses. Or it could be that you’re new to the game and still learning the build order for your chosen map/strategy and you keep forgetting to build the houses.

It takes 1 villager 25 seconds to build a house, so when you get housed, if you instantly start building a house you’re going to have 1 villagers worth of TC idle time. But it doesn’t work like that. You here the housed sound and then probably spend at least 10 seconds panicking, wondering which villager you should use to build a house and where you should build it. Then by the time you’ve selected a villager and they’ve walked to wherever you want to build the house and started building, you’ve probably got 60 seconds of TC idle time, at least when you’re very new to the game.

This is why when you build 2 houses at the start of the game, one of them is built by 2 villagers. That means it goes up in roughly 18 seconds, so that villager production isn’t stopped. You also don’t want to walk very far, if at all before building these first 2 houses. The first villager will be produced without a problem, but if at least one house isn’t built by the time that first villager comes out of the TC, then you will be housed for however long it takes to build at least one house.

For the perfect dark age, there are 3 kinds of idle time that you want to keep to an absolute minimum.

1. TC idle time. Continuous villager production is the goal. We’ve already covered this.
2. Scout idle time. Every second your scout isn’t moving is another second without food, which is what you need to achieve point 1 above.
3. Villager idle time. They need to be doing something or walking towards the point where they will start doing something. If they are standing still then they are a waste of 50 food and 25 seconds of TC production time. Typically they fall idle once they have finished building a house or military building or if the farm they are working on runs out of food.

TC idle time, scout idle time, villager idle time. Eliminate them.

If you select your scout and press “Ctrl” and “1” at the same time then from that point on, if you tap the “1” key once, you will select your scout. You can then right click him where you want to go. If you quickly double-tap the “1” key, you select your scout and navigate to him and put him in the center of your monitor.

At the start of the game I have my scout on control group 1, TC on 2, and the 6 shepherds on 3.

Right hand is on the mouse, Left hand on the keyboard with the middle finger on 1, index finger on 2 (also operating 3 when needed) and thumb on “C” for creating villagers.

Just doing this took my dark age rating from 200 to about 1800 in 2 weeks because it was suddenly easy switch between the scout and the TC so neither of them fell idle. It was also instrumental in learning to push deer on arena.
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Re: (replay) been playing since 1999, can't even beat the ai

Postby  Gary Internet » Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:06 pm

I should also add that my idle villager button is Tab and that's covered by my middle finger or third finger. That's the setup for dark age. To move the TC gather I just tap "2" to select the TC and then right click on whatever resource I want the next newly created villager to go to. The only things you can't right click on are live deer and boar. For those you still need to press "i" first, and then put the gather point on them. I know this all sounds massively basic but I was playing for about 3 months without knowing any of these things wondering how the hell people were so good. I'm just putting it out there in case anyone else benefits from it.
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Re: (replay) been playing since 1999, can't even beat the ai

Postby  NigelSlack » Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:11 pm

man i had the same problem for few years, build lots of walls... worked for me.. i mean, LOTS.. still working...
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Re: (replay) been playing since 1999, can't even beat the ai

Postby  squeak » Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:28 pm

  28 Nov 2016, 22:11 GMT » NigelSlack wrote:
man i had the same problem for few years, build lots of walls... worked for me.. i mean, LOTS.. still working...


00:14:26 [ONU]St4rk: in Ara i wall
00:14:36 [ONU]St4rk: and suddenly know what to do
00:14:42 [ONU]St4rk: in arena i got no idea
00:14:43 [ONU]St4rk: 111
00:48:40 Sobek_: sec
00:48:40 Sobek_: earthquake
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Re: (replay) been playing since 1999, can't even beat the ai

Postby  wattle » Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:54 pm

It's also worth noting, that the default AI for the steam version of AoE2 has been improved and now is way more challenging than it used to be for the CD-Version, even though it doesn't cheat, not even on hardest.
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Re: (replay) been playing since 1999, can't even beat the ai

Postby  NigelSlack » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:10 am

  28 Nov 2016, 22:28 GMT » squeak wrote:
  28 Nov 2016, 22:11 GMT » NigelSlack wrote:
man i had the same problem for few years, build lots of walls... worked for me.. i mean, LOTS.. still working...


00:14:26 [ONU]St4rk: in Ara i wall
00:14:36 [ONU]St4rk: and suddenly know what to do
00:14:42 [ONU]St4rk: in arena i got no idea
00:14:43 [ONU]St4rk: 111


well unless map start with walls u just have to wall it..
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Re: (replay) been playing since 1999, can't even beat the ai

Postby BMAPC187 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:13 am

11 good advice, i second it
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Re: (replay) been playing since 1999, can't even beat the ai

Postby  scud90 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:28 am

  28 Nov 2016, 22:54 GMT » wattle wrote:
It's also worth noting, that the default AI for the steam version of AoE2 has been improved and now is way more challenging than it used to be for the CD-Version, even though it doesn't cheat, not even on hardest.
Hmmm are you sure ? Source ? Last time I played a campaign it was still as bad as 1.0c :?
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