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The hidden problem with the Arena map

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Re: The hidden problem with the Arena map

Postby  Gary Internet » Thu May 11, 2017 10:15 pm

By the time I get to Castle Age, there's 2 questions I need to have answered.

1. How many relics can I realistically compete for?
2. Boom or rush?

The answers depend on scouting information.

I like how arena is fair at times and unfair at others. Over the long term it will balance out. Part of the skill as others have said is knowing when you have a good/bad map and knowing what to do in each case.

A generic map that's always the same will limit gameplay.
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Re: The hidden problem with the Arena map

Postby  Cakemaphoneige » Fri May 12, 2017 1:10 am

Someone was supposed to pass this on, but anyways. This problem is caused by a lack of temp_min_distance_group_placement and too much min_distance_group_placement.
If you check this arena style map i made, you can see that the placement is much better https://app.box.com/s/z609elkyjddzsl5vx527ef8olqo49qur

Solution to problem was suggested by Scripter, i just implemented it.
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Re: The hidden problem with the Arena map

Postby  _Ra_ » Fri May 12, 2017 1:28 am

There is only 1 unfair thing about arena: edie
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Re: The hidden problem with the Arena map

Postby  Jbmass » Fri May 12, 2017 7:38 pm

00:00:14 __Duck: my name is f uck
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Re: The hidden problem with the Arena map

Postby  SMB360 » Fri May 12, 2017 8:48 pm

  12 May 2017, 00:10 GMT » Cakemaphoneige wrote:
Someone was supposed to pass this on, but anyways. This problem is caused by a lack of temp_min_distance_group_placement and too much min_distance_group_placement.
If you check this arena style map i made, you can see that the placement is much better https://app.box.com/s/z609elkyjddzsl5vx527ef8olqo49qur

Solution to problem was suggested by Scripter, i just implemented it.


The problem is partially masked on this map but the symptoms are still there. All the resources are typically spawning in lines and the black hole is still there, but usually more off to one side than dead central. Additionally, the very high temp_min_distance_group_placement and low min_distance_group_placement causes there to be an object placed at regular intervals and it just rotates which one is placed, so you still get these artificial-looking lines and grids of objects.

Image

Additionally, the standard Arena map has min_distance_group_placement 9 (a relatively low value) and no command for temp_min_distance_group_placement. I always add temp_min_distance_group_placement to my maps - I think I was running with values in the 20-30 region when experimenting, so I was already using ratios for the two which were aligned with the proposed solution.

In general, I always find high temp_min_distance_group_placement to be problematic as you either get different types of objects spawning adjacently (if there is no/low min_distance_group_placement) or at regular intervals (if there is some min_distance_group_placement), leading to strange-looking and artificial-feeling maps in either case.

Finally, it may be beside the point as I don't know if you were using this map for anything other than the issue at hand, but the player walls on your map can intersect such that two players are behind the same wall. Just a heads-up :)
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Re: The hidden problem with the Arena map

Postby  Cakemaphoneige » Sat May 13, 2017 12:23 am

Every single thing you just described is caused by having too many players on a map. That pic has 7-8 players on like a what, small medium map? dude thats misrepresentation at its best.
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Re: The hidden problem with the Arena map

Postby  Influenza » Sat May 13, 2017 3:57 am

  12 May 2017, 23:23 GMT » Cakemaphoneige wrote:
Every single thing you just described is caused by having too many players on a map. That pic has 7-8 players on like a what, small medium map? dude thats misrepresentation at its best.

no thats not whats happening
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Re: The hidden problem with the Arena map

Postby  Skittle » Sat May 13, 2017 8:08 am

why not define the two extra goldspots as 4th gold of each player with a little bigger distance?
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Re: The hidden problem with the Arena map

Postby  GmanStreams » Sat May 13, 2017 8:50 am

  12 May 2017, 23:23 GMT » Cakemaphoneige wrote:
Every single thing you just described is caused by having too many players on a map. That pic has 7-8 players on like a what, small medium map? dude thats misrepresentation at its best.


Thats how an arena TG map looks
Image
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Re: The hidden problem with the Arena map

Postby  _VM_ » Sat May 13, 2017 9:56 am

solution : remove stone walls, remove wood in back map, play it huns/azt
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